Patriot Guard

[grnvixen]

Anyone interested in seeing the Patriot Guard in action, they will be in the area tomorrow. From a friend on another list (one of the ride captains is SCA):

"I wanted to let you know that there will be a Patriot Guard tomorrow morning
for the funeral of Army officer CW3 Michael Hartwick.

The funeral will be at the Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in Liberty MO. The
address is 1600 N Hwy 291. The service is scheduled for 9:00 A.M.

The Freds plan to be there to protest the military and the new law. The
Patriot Guard welcomes anyone who would like to stand with them in support of
Michael Hartwick's family."

Other observations cut for length

And I stumbled across FP the other day when channel surfing, he was being interviewed on Scarborough Country. (transcript of entire show here, will need to scroll down a bit for the Rev P part).

I had never seen FP before and it was a little daunting to find him staring straight into the camera spewing fourth his rhetoric. At first I was appaled that someone was actually giving him national air time (had never really caught this show before) but the producers must have known what they were doing as FP proceeded to pretty much hang himself; he would not engage in any civilized exchange of views and indeed just kept spewing forth until they had to turn off his mic. The host then turned to interview a Michigan State representative who is sponsoring legislation to limit protests at funerals and the widow of a serviceman killed in Iraq whose funeral was picketed by FP.

The host did make some good points that this does involve free speech and where/how do we draw the line but I think FP provided his own definition of what HE is actually doing in this quote: "And the trouble with the nation right now is there‘s a national movement to blot out the First Amendment—a national movement to criminalize gospel preaching..."

Gospel preaching now equals freedom of speech??? Apparently it does to FP. Anyone know if this particular definition has been defended as freedom of speech? Some of the definitions I found for 'preach':
To proclaim or put forth in a sermon
To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with
To deliver (a sermon).
To give religious or moral instruction, especially in a tedious manner.

Much as I disagree w/ FP, he IS entitled to his first amendment rights as much as anyone else but he seems to have a different term for what 'freedom of speech' is ie; "gospel preaching". By the definitions of preaching above, this seems to be going beyond the first amendement.

(handy reference to First Amendment here)

Comments

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

People like Phelps really put my devotion to free speech on the line. Do I like what he's saying? No, of course not. Do I think he should be able to say it? Grudgingly, I must say yes.

However, I don't believe he should be able to do this to people. And honestly, I don't know of a good solution.

I do hope that his family buries him in a public cemetary plot. Because I really do plan to literally dance on his grave someday.

[grnvixen.livejournal.com]

That is the problem, we support his right to speak, but diasagree with what he wants to say.

Then there is the way he exercises his freedom of speech, and how it impinges on the freedoms of others. That is the gray area that he is taking gross advantage of for his own, personal religious campaign.

And I have to wonder, how do the Freds manage to afford to travel to all these funerals? I would love to be able to travel around and demonstrate to support the causes I care about but I just can't afford it. I know several of his family work for the state (one for the parole board) but I would think they would need more financial support. Hmmmm, follow the money.....

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Then there is the way he exercises his freedom of speech, and how it impinges on the freedoms of others. That is the gray area that he is taking gross advantage of for his own, personal religious campaign.

Exactly. That's what really bothers me. Well, that and he's a lunatic asshole.

[cepblionhearth.livejournal.com]

FP is a disbarred attorney, Now listed as a " Primative" Baptist minister & head of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka. Said church is composed of his family & they all happily exist in their family compound, including inground pool, several homes & "church", all of which enjoy tax exempt status!!! His daughter Marge is a practicing attorney & they frequently can be found heading up lawsuits, many of which are in protection of their freedom of speech. All income to the family is donated to the "church". So you see the embodiment of evil--- religious zealots who are also attorneys!!!

[grnvixen.livejournal.com]

Know your enemy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Fred_Phelps

and the book that was almost released after the Topeka Captiol Journal (altho take their explaination about how this came about with a grain of salt):
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/michael_haggerty/expose3.htm

The family still seems to have a lot of influence in Topeka and I wouldn't be surprised to find they have silent supporters.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

I will join you, how about the mainiac dance from Flashdance? ;)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking some heavy girl-on-girl grinding. Boy-on-boy would be welcome, too, if there are any gay men still left in Kansas by then.

[cepblionhearth.livejournal.com]

I assure there will be gay men in Kansas, & a multitude would love to join in this celebration!! FP is a vile person, but he has done a lot for gay rights-- by making the formerly apathetic take a stance. You see, even the lowliest of scum serves a purpose!!!

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

That's true! A very good way to think about it!

[motherpockets.livejournal.com]

I love FP! Like you said, GV, he hangs himself. What better advertisement for narrow-minded, idiotic biggots and just how stupid they are than Fred? He is the poster child for lunacy, and is the perfect person to demonstrate just how ridiculous those thoughts and beliefs are! I will never forget going to Baldwin City, Ks, to a friend's ordination as a Methodist minister. My mother was visiting, and decided to go with me. I explained to her on the way that FP and his band of numbskulls would be demonstrating, and that people from my faith community would be doing a silent counterprotest. When I told her about Fred, she didn't believe me--said I must be mistaken: no one could possibly believe or say the things I told her about him. When we got there, the only place for her to sit was right next to Fred and his group. I asked if she'd be okay, and then went to stand with my friends doing the silent counterprotest. After about half an hour, I went over to check on my mom. She was absolutely livid!! She must have been about 80 at the time, quite frail, and about 4'2". She could barely walk or even stand. But she was so mad at Fred and his group that she got up from her chair and came over to stand with us, hanging on to a tiny little newly-planted tree for support. I was so proud of her! I always was, but that day in particular!